Here's a question: Is there a princess you think is a lot more feminist than she is normally given credit for?

My answer is Ariel, but I won't go into so much detail right now. I certainly think she's more feminist than Belle, who is often labeled a feminist despite having little agency and being in the male narrative-- and Belle is my 2nd favorite so this is not an intentional drag.

Also, are you of the agreement that Mulan is the most feminist princess?

When we say "most feminist", remember feminism is about agency and women making their own choices. I do agree that Mulan is the most feminist, but not because she got strong in the army.

I think Mulan could be thought of as the most feminist princess. She's doing something that even in the movie is seen as disgraceful. She's a woman in the army and not only that, but saved China. She did so along side men. So I definitely agree that she's feminist. In terms of marriage, I'd say Jasmine and Merida are pretty feminist too. Jasmine because she stands up for herself by refusing to be a prize and just marry anyone. Merida too. I've only seen Brave once so I'm going off of what I remember. Not wanting to marry because she's more than capable of living her life with or without a husband. Belle is feminist in the way that she shows that women can read and learn too, especially when up against Gaston's ignorant comment about women reading. She does well to stand up for herself too even against men, and even her own prince. Tiana is often seen as more feminist when compared to the others because she had a job and didn't have much of an interest in marriage until she met Naveen. I think a princess can want a prince and still be a feminist. It's a natural thing for people to want someone in their life. A partner or companion. Pocahontas had her prince, but she can be seen as feminist because she was willing to stand up for her people and stop a war.

Of course they can all be seen as having feminist qualities, but they can also have drawbacks as well. There's nothing wrong with the princess wanting a prince, feminism is about choice. But of the princesses, Ariel is the ONLY one who actively chooses a guy and goes after him herself. The rest are swept up in the male's narrative (Jasmine, Tiana, Belle, to some extent, Pocahontas) or chosen by the guy (Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, Jasmine again ). Mulan, of course, doesn't have any real romance in her narrative (only hinted at the end with Shang) and Rapunzel actually blackmails a guy and forces him into her story, which is actually pretty great, and they basically tip toe around each others narratives. Merida, of course, doesn't have any man in her story so she's left of this.

Feminism is not standing up for people and stopping a war. That has little to do with feminism. What IS feminism is Pocahontas people' never questioning her authority and treating her opinion the same as anyone else's. Mulan saving China is not necessarily feminism, what IS feminist about it is Mulan never losing her femininity (defeating Shan Yu with her fan) and ignoring the men in power multiple times and coming out on top. To me what's NOT feminist is her still craving her dad's approval by the end when she was supposed to have learned she was good enough for herself and nobody else.

I tend to agree with Disnerdtobe, here. All of the princesses make their own decisions ( although some make a greater quantity of their own decisions when compared to others). But I wouldn't DO as the internet LOVES to do, which is rate them from "least to most feminist" as if that makes SO MUCH DIFFERENCE. I tend to believe that the fact that females/princesses have "starring roles" in the film itself, that the focus is on them to a certain extent, and so there is feminism naturally built into that decision alone.

I agree that each princess is at least a little feminist in her own way. The only exception to this would probably be Aurora. I love her, but I just don't see how she's feminist at all. She has no agency in the film, and the one time she makes a decision for herself (when she breaks the rules and dances with Phillip) happens because a man encouraged her.

I think that Snow White, Cinderella, and Ariel are all a bit more feminist than most people give them credit for, and that Belle, Jasmine, and Tiana are a little less feminist than most people give them credit for.

I agree if Mulan was considered the most feminist. Not because she was strong, but she proves that a woman was able to do the same things that man usually do. Feminism is a belief that women should have equal rights and opportunities that a man usually have, and Mulan already prove that.

I think some of other princesses are still having the feminist quality in their own way, although not as strong as Mulan. Jasmine and Merida are feminist due of they stands up for themselves and refuse arranged marriage. Belle shown us that a woman have rights for reading and have knowledge. Tiana shown us that woman have rights for have a job and career. Pocahontas too, she stands with herself and speak her opinion.

I respectfully disagree with Disnerdtobe, who said that every princesses are feminist. I personally don't think Classic Princesses are feminist. What Disnerdtobe said about them is more like their good quality in overall for me, rather than their feminism traits. But it doesn't mean that being feminine, having a prince, and do chores are a bad thing. It's your own choice to be feminist or not.

I also don't think Ariel is feminist by the way. Yes she's way more active and she stands for her decision, but I don't think it was count as feminist movement. What she did is more like she was rebelling towards her father and chasing her crush. The same thing with Rapunzel, she just being feminine but also heroic in same way, which I don't find any feminism traits from her. Hitting peoples with pan and blackmailing Flynn doesn't mean she's a feminist, instead she was shown to be smart and quick thinking.

Also I'm gonna link my DP Movie Bechdel Test article I wrote a couple years ago, in case anyone is interested in reading it (or re-reading it). link

Most feminist - well yes, I would say that is Mulan. She was part of a society that had strict gender roles and expectations, and while fighting for feminism wasn't Mulan's main driver, she certainly fought back against these while she tried to prove her own self-worth.

crossposted from the feminism poll that went to shit

here's my top 6 disney incels:

6. jafar (failed pick up artist)
5. shi fu
4. lawrence
3. prince john from robin hood (extensive mommy issues)
2. ratcliffe
1. omg definitely frollo

discuss :)

This question is straying off topic a bit, but I'm curious to know which other well-known Disney/non-Disney animated heroines people find to be most feminist?

Agency is a major part of feminism and should be treated that way when we evaluate how feminist the princesses are. But I think there are other things that should be taken into account too - like sexualization (especially wrt women of color!!), how much they're confined to misogynistic character tropes (e.g. damselhood, strong female character syndrome), what impact they're allowed to have on the story (the "sexy lamp" test); even character design has a place in this discussion.

In my opinion Snow White isn´t anti-feministic, people make her seem like that.
Snow is actually a reivindicative character, when SW7D aired it was not very common to see movies where the woman plays and important role and actually runs away from home, at the time it was very common to see sexualized females viewed as an object or a trophee for males.
Snow isn´t like that, this 14 year old girl runs away from home and only cleans the house because she has been forced to clean all her life, and bc she thinks the dwarfs are actually 7 little children and maybe if she cleans the house for them they´ll let her stay. She is positive and kind, she is also flirty and sarcastic with Grumpy, she has personality, she is not an object.
Of course her role in the movie can´t be like Mulan, because Snow is just an orphan 14 year old girl that doesn´t know how to fight and has to find refuge bc her stepmother wants to kill her, she is one of the bravest princesses because she NEVER gives up, she doesn´t break down, she cares more about others than herself, she´s independet.
This is a reminder that being feminine shouldn´t be considered as a symbol of sexism but feminism, a woman is free to be and do and think whatever she wants. That´s one of the many reasons I love Snow she isn´t a tomboy, she is feminine but also brave, she keeps it classy.

Somewhat related, it seems to me that with a lot of (mainly male but not always) writers, if they CAN avoid writing positive female relationships, they do. Tiana x Lottie, Moana and her grandma, Pocahontas x Nakoma, and Aurora and the fairies are great but it kills me how barring Aurora, NONE of the girls are Mama's girls. I'm not bashing women who are closer to their dads, but it seems Disney has little idea of what to do with moms so they just either kill them off or let them sit on the side. Even Moana does this and her mom probably has the most screen time barring Elinor. This is so common in the media, even in series that are fairly progressive with their female characters (I'm looking at you, A Song of Ice and Fire). Merida does have the most realistic relationship with Elinor I think, but again, she prefers Fergus. This also is another issue, how 2 heroines with different interests naturally can't get along. (Which was a wasted opportunity with Frozen but I guess they kinda made up for it in the short films?) It just ticks me off that movies seem to think moms are useless and father figures matter more. I hope Disney fixes this in the future.

Going off of what AudreyFreak wrote above, the princesses movies have an appalling lack of female sidekicks. Every princess has heavily male sidekicks and the only time they have a female sidekick she's usually an old woman (the 3 fairies, fairy godmother, mrs.potts). for the latter 2, Cinderella's male sidekicks and in regards to BATB, lumiere and cogsworth have more of a presence than mrs. potts. The only exception is Nakoma, who is young, but still has less screentime than Meeko and Percy. I'm always so angry that EVERY Disney princess movie has heavily more male characters with screentimes and names, except for the princesses. (again, interesting exception is sleeping beauty). Lottie may be another exception, but I really wouldn't call her Tiana's sidekick-- she actually unintentionally opposes her-- and still ray and louis have more screentime.

I'm highly unfeminist (mostly due the negative connotation with them on the internet), but I think that's the only real feminist princesses are Mulan and Belle since they really ring home the I don't need a man thing. The worst example are probably the classics, and the man dependants like Jasmine, Ariel, and Pocahontas. I think Tia and Merida could be considered feminist too, but they're among the more hot-headed types. This probably annoys some people, but yolo.

People always complain about the princesses being poor role models, but for example some of the non princesses carry good feministic qualities: Miss Bianca is a highly esteemed diplomat, Nani and Kanga are single moms caring for their children without a man aiding them, Duchess and Lady are the main leads of their movies who drive the plot forward, not the men, etc etc...

Also, Judy Hopps. Police Officer. Hard-working, determined, and has a big flaw that she's willing to work to defeat. Of course, the "best role models are the classic princesses cause they're good housewives" crowd would probably hate her for daring to do something outside of cleaning and cooking.

^good thing they don't exist then since this isn't the 60s or a red pill forum, lol. I've still yet to see Judy get any hate from anyone besides scarletunicorn.

Can we at least agree 90s second wave feminism that hates housewives, moms, etc needs to die in that era? Like yeah, third wave is not perfect (plus there's now so many different kinds of feminists) but at least most in that movement truly agree there's nothing bad about women choosing to be a mom and working at home. although rich privileged "feminists" like SU up there who have a very shallow, childish idea of empowerment that usually revolves around female characters being sassy or having magic powers or something don't agree. y'all are the worst kinds of feminists because you think there's only one way to be, and you don't consider women too oppressed to stand up to their oppressors, poor women, etc.

what also ticks me off about that type is that they really cherry pick what female characters are strong and which aren't. for example, we know Tiana is a good role model but I hear a lot of people (not anyone here, just in general) who praise her for having a cooking career also say Snow is a bad role model for... in a sense, also having a cooking career. the difference is Snow's hobby is much more feminine coded (she doesn't earn cash for it, and does it in part out of affection for her found family than to make a name for herself or earn a living). Or with the non princesses/non disney girls- Jasmine gets a ton of hate for her attitude yet Meg or Anastasia get praised for the exact same reason, and they also "needed a man" as much as she did.

I am a feminist. For a while, I didn't want to sure the term, because of the negative connotation attached to it, but I eventually realised that a few people I disagree with don't represent the whole movement, and that I should own my desire for gender equality.

I think that every Disney Princess is feminist in their own way, and they certainly were feminist when their respective movie was released. Plus, Disney doesn't end at "princesses" there are other female leads which are pretty great.