I mean, all their films before that were a robot, a fish, an old man, a toy, an ant, a monster and then we finally get a female lead and it's ✔a princess who wants more ✔a princess who doesn't want to be a princess ✔white, young, attractive lead ✔has a horse, rides around dreaming about freedom, etc ✔fighting with a parent figure about not wanting to get married and following tradition

Is that all they think viewers want out of a female lead? I would have liked a more complex concept

It's the "theme song" of the whole DP lineup, and the theme song of both Frozen and Moana.

If you're tired of it...well, go watch Dreamworks, Ghibli, or something else.

^not really a nice attitude, because that's exactly how you don't inspire change.
"If you don't like it, go somewhere else" Is the attitudes of racists and sexists when someone complains about injustice in this country. Disney needs to learn to change as well.

^I wish. I'll play Devil's advocate here. What about Scott Pruitt, the head of the EPA? If environmentalists can't hold him accountable for dismantling much of environmental law ( which was in place for the common good), then how the heck are we supposed to stop Disney from being a mirror--- and just reflecting back exactly what audiences want to see? I mean, Pruitt is reflecting exactly what our society sees as "hindrances to freedom" in environmental law. And Disney is reflecting back what feminists have touted as what they want in a female.

I'm not saying this is great. But asking THEM to change, when there is a bleep-load of obstruction and societal influences in the way, is not likely. So that's why I was supplying everyone with alternatives.

What feminists have demanded princesses that we've had? No feminist in their right mind would want someone like Anna (who is almost about as anti-feminist in the lineup of Disney heroines as they come). One example of Pruitts actions does not set the example for all change, and I'm not really sure how the example you showed related to changing the ways of the media and what Disney puts out. Also considering that a few years later Pixar put out inside out with much more unique characters that were female leads that did much better than Brave so yes, it can and HAS been done

^I'm saying that Disney started "buying in" to the feminist mindset-- the most extreme version of that mindset when it comes to Disney Princesses. The fact that Inside Out did not have that, was more because it was marketed as "a thought piece" not "a Disney Princess movie."

"What feminists have demanded princesses that we've had? " Oh, yeah. Belle was created because Disney got blowback from its audience that Ariel wasn't feminist enough.

In the heyday of Frozen marketing saturation, Elsa was touted as the most feminist because "she didn't need no man."

What I said about Pruitt, obstruction, and societal influences that don't want change to happen? I'll totally stand by that statement 100%. You can't ask Disney who made shitloads of bucks off of Americans by providing "feel good entertainment" to suddenly start providing "the truth about female empowerment," when most of their business is "fantasy and fabrication?" Please. They would lose money if they started differing from what their audiences want.

You're missing my point entirely and I didn't say your point about Pruitt was wrong just a weird comparison point. We can agree to disagree, but yes they have some responsibility to help change female representation in media because they are a powerhouse. Disney has introduced queer characters despite serious backlash so to say they can't change the way they show women because of audience demand doesn't really add up.

^Well, maybe you can pioneer that movement, if you so choose. But the only thing Disney listens to, anymore, is money. And my protest against Disney will be by giving my money to another cartoon developer who holds a different idea: Dreamworks is one of the last animation studios that remain, now that Disney has bought Fox.

sort of weirdly agree with wavesurf here.
disney and pixar are linked now, and it's weird to pick on brave for doing a princess movie when we eat up all the other princess movies disney puts out. i just feel like people use brave as a scapegoat for things that they accept in other movies without blinking.
and it's new ground for pixar anyway. it's certainly better than them recycling the odd couple roadtrip plot from toy story for the 56987857567th time.

No I've criticized Disney for recycling it with Moana and tangled as well although I think tangled has more depth to it buts definitely recycled in moana

what i mean is, no one looks at beauty and the beast or tlm and goes "oh gdi another princess movie" even though disney had done several of those even before those movies came out - imo because the nostalgia filter kicks in and protects them from things people don't mind going after tangled or brave or frozen for doing.

Not at all. It just so happens that they didn't do much with it.

@unholynoise- no, Ariel was actually brand new at the time in terms of having proactive princesses. Her and Belle kicked off 90s heroines from other studios. The fact that they came before the others protects them, sure, but that's the point.

Not at all. Even with the recycling concept of "princess that wants more" from older DPs like Ariel, Belle, Jasmine to newer ones like Rapunzel, Moana. Most of girls watching their movies would relate to them.

"Ariel was actually brand new at the time in terms of having proactive princesses."

yeah but she really wasn't. cinderella went after what she wanted way before that - getting that dress made and showing up at the ball were clear acts of defiance, an unmistakable middle finger to her stepfamily. maybe it's not as memorable as being a mermaid and selling your voice to a sea witch to become a human even tho daddy said no, but ariel fans need to chill - it's possible to love her without acting like she invented everything.

and jasmine is much more the prototype for 90s strong female character syndrome in other studios than ariel or belle imo.

Are you able to have a discussion without being condescending? "Ariel fans need to chill"... Literally when little mermaid came out there was a huge uprising from feminist film critics (and some backlash) because before the p heroines in films had never been this proactive, defiant, flawed, and straying from home on their own accord. No she is not perfect, but anyone who has studied the 90s heroine and feminist film critique knows that this was a new heroine for Disney and paved the way for heroines like Belle, jasmine, etc to be created. I never said Ariel was the best heroine Disney ever created but she set up for outspoken, defiant, rebellious and very proactive girls who made their own choices not just in Disney but in other animated film. the DP lineup as marketing wouldn't have been made without her either. I know you don't like Ariel but that doesn't change the fact that she was an extremely influential figure.
I absolutely don't agree about jasmine. In fact I feel Belle has the strongest pull but we wouldn't have Belle without ariel- Belle was supposed to be the "improvement" on ariels character.
At the time, Pixar was highly praised for making unique, nuanced characters but also criticized for being highly male-centric so it was a disappointment when they went the "princess who wants more" route and followed the checklist for their first female lead. Not a big fan of inside out but yeah they are capable of making films with female characters who aren't just "princess who wants more" And it being successful.

In two minds really. It doesn't really bother me, but they did follow the old Disney Princess plan... there really wasn't the unique Pixar spin on this movie at all.

And what's wrong with Anna? She isn't for everyone personality wise for sure, but she's still pretty brave and selfless when it counts.

And I agree with UN- Ariel did imo set the 90s standard for spunky rebellious girls but wanting more wasn't necessarily new. And Belle fits right in with the Classics, I think. she's just as idealized, feminine, and into fairy tale romance as them (even if she doesn't outright say she wants it for herself like Snow and Aurora).